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Panel Report: Slashing Harry
emmagrant01 wrote in lubricus
SLASHING HARRY was intended to be a panel where we compared and contrasted several different ships, but when I polled the people in the room, we were about 50% Snarry fans, 40% Harry/Draco fans, and the rest were various rarepairs. So the panel ended up being a comparison of Harry/Draco and Harry/Snape!

The room was split into two groups, one for each ship, and the groups were asked to address the following questions:

1. Why is ___ a good match for Harry?
2. Is Harry usually a top or a bottom in this pairing?
3. What would a good slogan be for this pairing?
4. What are the top three fic tropes for this pairing?

The Snarry folks powered through their questions and had a detailed poster ready for discussion. The H/D folks got sidetracked on the top/bottom issue, heh. But we were still ready to discuss!

Question 1: The Snarry group's reasons for slashing Harry and Snape ranged from "just because", to pointing out the commonalities between Snape and Harry, to a general enjoyment of the age difference and teacher/student dynamic. They also pointed out that Snarry has a whole book named after it. ;-)

The H/D fans noted that Draco was a good match for Harry because of their obvious love/hate ("pigtail pulling") relationship in the books, but even more because the power dynamic between these characters is "opposite but equal". There was a suggestion that H/D fen typically aren't into the teacher/student dynamic...

Question 2: Apparently Harry is almost always a bottom in Snarry. There are fics where they switch, but bottom!Snape with Harry is reportedly rare. (And I felt immediately challenged to write Harry topping Snape, cause I'm a rebel like that.)

In H/D fic, the consensus was that the boys switch in most fic. There are certainly people who feel strongly about one or the other topping as well, but it's not as clear cut as it is in Snarry. It was also pointed out that if one adheres to the "Rules of Yaoi", Harry will almost always be a bottom.

Question 3:
The Snarry Slogan: Because Harry deserves a Prince. The runner up slogan was apparently Saving Harry's Privates.

The H/D slogan: Quidditch-toned muscles!. LOL!

Question 4: I asked for the top 3 Snarry tropes, and those overachievers gave us 11!
1) Detention fic
2) Snape saving Harry from ____
3) Forced bonding/slavery
4) Post-War Harry finding/saving Snape
5) Mpreg (almost always with pregnant!Harry, per item 2 above)
6) Time travel
7) Harry is betrayed and Snape is the only one who believes him
8) Preparing for war /apprenticeship
9) Amnesia
10) Butt sex (I think this was pure PWP?)
11) Snape has to rape Harry to save him

On the H/D side, we spent so much time discussing item 2 that we only had a couple of minutes for this one, but we came up with:
1) Very fem!Draco catches Harry's eye, seduced him, etc. (We agreed that Draco is almost always the flaming queen in fic, while Harry rarely is.)
2) Harry redeems Draco (via buttsex...)
3) Harry and Draco are forced to work together to solve a mystery/save their own lives/save their kids' lives/break a curse/etc. (And here I hung my head, because I think that right there summarizes the plot of EVERY H/D fic I've ever written!)

After we presented our answers, we talked about what the two ships had in common, and there was much good-natured taunting and giggling. Much fun was had by all! :-D

Comments? Anyone remember other details I don't have here?

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well, this completely explains why I love Snarry, and can take or leave H/D most days. all that angsty drama and abuse! it's lovely...

although, I don't see the quite common post DH Snarry trope of only Harry working to redeem the war hero. I bet that's common in SS/HG as well.

That's definitely a big one for H/D fic as well!

Oh, man, I wish I could have been there! Because...

(a) It's true that Harry's usually the bottom, but I can think of plenty of really hot fics where it's the other way around. Including lexin's brilliant A Life More Ordinary, which also features pregnant!Snape and dominant!Harry (not in a BDSM way). In stories where Snape bottoms, he does still tend to be pretty bossy, and that's always fun to read.

And (b) I think one of the most common Snarry tropes is Snape and Harry being forced to cooperate, just like #3 on the H/D side. Examples include Contemporary Magical Innovations by H. Granger, possibly the funniest Snarry ever; and ellen_fremedon's The Long Summer series, which I've read more times than I should probably admit; and absolutely oodles of others.

I haven't read a lot of Snarry lately, so maybe the pairing is a lot different now. I wish I could have been there to talk about it.

Oooh, recs! Thanks so much for providing references for your counter-examples! I haven't read enough Snarry to have a clue, so I must defer to your expertise.

We hope to do this con again, and I really hope you can make it next time. :-D

Heh. Some of us have written bottom!Snape, bottom!Harry, bottom!Draco, Snape/Harry/Draco in the middle... and switcheroo any of them. :D

So do you think bottom!Snape (with top!Harry) is rare? That was the consensus at the con, but I'm not well-read enough in that pairing to hazard a guess.

The Snarry folks powered through their questions and had a detailed poster ready for discussion. The H/D folks got sidetracked on the top/bottom issue, heh.
*lol* Why doesn't that surprise me at all? Ah, but I wish I'd been there, it sounds like a lot of fun.

Now I wonder what are the "Rules of Yaoi"?

LOL @ Saving Harry's Privates. That's pure gold right there.

It was also pointed out that if one adheres to the "Rules of Yaoi", Harry will almost always be a bottom.

Well now I want to know those rules.

11) Snape has to rape Harry to save him o_0

2) Harry redeems Draco (via buttsex...) As if there were any other way...hahahaha...

#11 refers to Rushlight's "Absolution", "Through a Shattered Mirror" and "Walking the Mirror's Edge" (the last 2 are the same story, one from Harry's POV and one from Snape's). In all of them Snape is undercover with the Death Eaters when Harry is captured, and can only protect Harry from sexual assault/slavery by the others by getting there first, so to speak. He's quite tormented by it. "The Pendulum of Choice", also by her, has Harry moving through various alternative universes whose Harry's are variously involved with Draco, Snape and Lucius. She's really good.

This sounds like so much fun!!!

What did the rare pair slashers do? Did they answer the questions for their own pairings individually or join one of the other groups? I'd be so curious to talk about these with some other, rarer Harry!slash pairings.

since no one else answered - I think the original plan was to have a third group to discuss other pairs, but when the workshop began there weren't many people who were into other pairs much, or were exclusively into other pairs, so they joined the H/D or Snarry groups. I think others trickled in later but by then the groups didn't rearrange.

I was in the Drarry group, but, since the con, I have found myself going over to the dark side (Snarry). This panel ruined me, I tell you!

yay! It's not cheating, I promise. I lean H/D, but I've found a very satisfying home with Snarry...and if you're lucky, all three of them will get together! :D

oh, redemption via buttsex - classic!

Thanks for posting this. It sounds like you guys had such a great time. I really wish I could have been there.

Sorry all of you Snarry shippers but I have to be honest.... as it is am a BIG fan of slash and whilst am partial to H/D I do read some occassional pairings like HP/Cedric Draco/Blaise Remus/Sirius even James/Sirius Marauders Era ( if the fic is particularly good) but still I do not and never will like Snarry.... do not misunderstand me I hold Severus Snape in great respect and reverence I admire his supreme sacrifice, his courage, his intimidating and powerful personality and in DH I even wished Severus/Lily was canon... but still I DO NOT support Snarry... for the plain simple reason.... paedophilia is NOT hot it is plain sick and retarding where in canon do you get even the slightest reference to a relationship of this kind between Harry and Prof. Snape?? Harry's attitude to him evolves from intimidation to contempt to downright hatred to evential grudging/reluctant admirationat end of DH there is perhaps a potential for Snape/Harry mentor fic where Severus occupies a position similar to Sirius or Dumbledore in Harry's life ( which will need an author of immense potential/brilliance to convincingly potray this) but dear shippers dont you feel that by supporting such pairing it is Snape who is being potrayed as a pervert/paedophile in Snarry fics? What else can we call such fics where a man in his late forties developes sexual/non platonic feelings towards a boy in his ttens?? and to be honest I hate /dislike not just Snarry but any pairing which potrays or highlights paedophilia in a positive light like Snaco : Snape/Draco , Snape/Hermione Sirius/Harry Remus/Harry etc.... sorry if I sounded harsh and prejudiced but I am just voicing my opinion

Not that I'm trying to "convince you," because as you say, you have a prejudice where this pairing is concerned (which is your right), but...

1. By the time Harry is the age of consent in the wizarding world, Snape is in his mid/late thirties, not his late forties.

2. More than half of the Snape/Harry stories I've read feature a Harry who's already in his late twenties or older (the same is true for Snape/Draco and Snape/Hermione).

1 and 2 take care of most of the odd pedophilia accusations (with the answer for people who like to read young!Harry specifically being "these are fictional characters, this is fantasy, why are you so invested in policing other people's fantasies?")

And as for this: "...where in canon do you get even the slightest reference to a relationship of this kind between Harry and Prof. Snape?" - well, first of all much of fanfiction is simply about answering "what if?" questions. What if Snape and Harry were attracted to each other...how would that play out? And if you're looking for a real canonical basis for the pairing, then one need only take the vaguest notice of how obsessed Harry was with the owner of his Advanced Potions book in HBP to see that there might very well be some sort of connection between the two, when all the extraneous barriers are stripped away.

In any case, I'm sure no Snarry fans will lose sleep worrying about whether one person somewhere in the world likes their favorite pairing. Like what you like, hate what you hate...the world will keep revolving.

I'm absolutely not surprised H/D got stuck on the top/bottom discussion. It comes up like clockwork every time you get a group. I wonder if there is a correlation between people who put Draco on top and height. I felt very vindicated when JKR said Draco was taller, but I noticed that bottom!Draco was usually shorter prior to that.

Nothing wrong with that third h/d trope, I like it! How else are they going to stop fighting and be around each other long enough to realise they really want the other? They need a common goal. :)

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